windshield replacement

windshield replacement

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I have a question that has been bothering me for some time.  I am need of replacing the windshield on a 172K.  I have seen other 172's after they are done and they have removed the strip at the base of the windshield.  They have been re-attached by using screws or rivnuts. 

I talked to another 172 owner recently who said he replaced the windshield without removing the strip.  He has the Cessna service manual and apparently it describes the procedure for replacing the windshield by popping out the old, trimming the replacement and popping in the new window.  I wonder when the aircraft was new if the windshield was popped into place or was the bottom strip rivetted afterward?

If the windshield is popped into place is there more of a chance that it would leak???  Any information would be appreciated.

Ron

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Re: windshield replacement

Ron,
I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims that the windshield can be replaced with out removing the bottom trim as that is the clamp that holds the windshield in.  if that is in fact possible I would really like to have him come to my shop and demonstrate it as it might save me some time on the next one.
the best way to reattach the clamp is with the same AD rivits that the factory used when installing it at the time of assembly Kansas.  however due to the lack of accessibility to the underside of the fuselage in that area in most airplanes it is acceptable to use alternate methods.  screws and nuts are commonly used by persons not comfortable or experienced in riviting but again you still have the problem of access to the back side.  the easiest way is using cherry max rivits.  I dont recommend the use of rivnuts as they arent considered to be adequate for structual use and the windshield clamp is an important part of the structure.  consider what would happen if the rivnuts pulled loose inflight.  the other problem using rivnuts would likely cause is water and air leaks.
when I get to work on Monday I will try to remember to look up the replacement instructions and see what is said.
mark

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Re: windshield replacement

Thanks for your input.  I will take a look at this persons service manual as well and see what it says.  I will also take a look at the plane he has.

Ron

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Re: windshield replacement

Mark, 
How about using nutplates?
I have seen sevaral Cessna and other aircraft where nutplates were installed.

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Re: windshield replacement

Clay,
nutplates are a great idea and one that I personally wish Cessna would have thought of.  Piper uses nutplates on their windshield clamps.
the installation of nutplates however runs into the accessibility issues previously discussed.  if its something that a person really wants to undertake it is recommended that it be done when the airplane is undergoing a complete rebuild or when the entire instrument group is being upgraded/replaced.  you wouldnt necessairly need to remove the windshield to install the nutplates.
mark

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Re: windshield replacement

I did some more research on the pop out and in windshield replacement.  The plane in question is a 172N.  The replacement windshield came from Leavens Bros. in Toronto and it was the standard thickness and manufactured by Great Lakes Plastics.

I have a photocopy of the page from the Cessna service manual that describes how to remove and re-install without drilling out the bottom strip.  Removal is done by two people pushing out the old with their feet from the inside.  The new one is trimmed to be the same as the old.  The windshield has the felt applied to the edges and put in the bottom track.  It is started into the side tracks and then popped into the top.  Cessna describes making a tool out of sheet metal to "shoe horn" the windscreen in at the top.

The person I know says that changing the front windshield was easier than doing the sides or the rear.  I don't think the method would work with a thicker windscreen.

I wonder how Cessna installed the windscreen originally.  I would bet that they used this method on the assembly line since it sounds fast if done correctly. 

Regardless I am going to give it a try when I do a paint and plastic replacement on my plane.

Ron

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Re: windshield replacement

My C-175A is completely stripped.  It will be easy to access at this time for installation of the nutplates.

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Re: windshield replacement

I'm currently replacing the windshield in my C150L. The manual says the original rivets can be drilled out and replaced with nuts and screws--with regard to the clamp. It took two of us about 2 hours to remove the last installed screws and nuts...I laid on the floor and worked looking up. Removal of the turn coordinator and the glove box made access to the nuts fairly simple.

About the windshield--I don't think popping the windshield in is a sound solution. With my clamp removed I'm still having trouble getting the newly trimmed unit to fit well and it is taking trial and error fitting. I can't imagine popping it in and having to take it out again to do more trimming for proper fit. I made a paper duplicate of the old unit and trimmed the new unit to old size. One friend said using a towel wrapped across the windshield with one person at each end and pulling would help to get the windshield to insert completely on the sides and top. This is with the clamp off--if anyone knows why it won't simply slide in - I'd appreaciate some advise. I believe the problem is the seal I'm using--zinc chromate putty is what was removed, nobody sells it anymore and the seal I have now isn't as pliable as the old putty.

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Re: windshield replacement

I would be afraid of breaking new windshield by shoe horning it.  Never seen this done, but you might be on to something here.

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Re: windshield replacement

hey, im near toronto.. and have a '74 206 that needs a new windshield..  would you pass my message along to the guy that just "pops" them in and ill get him to come and do mine!!
thanks

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Re: windshield replacement

Any way of getting access to the service manual instructions for installing a replacement windshield to a Cessna 172M?  My service manual says "drill out the rivets in the lower mounting strips and replace with screws and nuts. Roy

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Re: windshield replacement

Hello Roy:

While a bit generic in nature, the Great Lakes Aero site has some helpful instructions posted. See them at: http://www.glapinc.com/instructions/index.htm

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Re: windshield replacement

Hi Roy
I just looked through my "M" Service manual and it says the same thing for all Cessna's You must remove the lower retaining strip to replace the  windshield. Typically in the field, Cherrymax rivets are used to reinstall the windshield as access to these rivets require a lot of the panel to be removed/disassembled. All of the Windshields I have replaced I have only used screws on a couple at the owners request. Flat Rate for a Winshield R&R is typically 10/12 hours...

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Re: windshield replacement

I recently replaced a windshield in a 150 without removing the lower band. We did use two pieces of sheet metal the full length of the upper portion of the windshield to shoehorn it into place. I was introduced to this method by another mechanic on the field who has done a 172 this way.
It wasn't easy, but I wouldn't say difficult either. Much faster. The pucker factor was very high. Definately need two people, three would be better(so they can share the blame), but once we had the grooves cleaned out and the new felt on the window it took us about 15 minutes to pop it in.
Del

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Re: windshield replacement

So maybe I am not crazy.  More evidence that it is possible to pop in a windshield.  I asked the question before how do they do it in the factory. Has anyone seen it done.  I bet they pop it in as well.

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Re: windshield replacement

Unfortunately the factory installs the windscreen BEFORE the instrument panel goes in. This makes it really easy to get at all of the rivets that cannot be seen when the instrument panel is in place. I have installed more windscreens than I care to count and I have never seen one that fit correctly the first time, I would hate to have to pop a windscreen in and out three times, which is normally what it takes to get it right. At $400 a pop I think I will continue to do it the way I have been and not have a bunch of expensive scrap plexiglass laying around...

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Re: windshield replacement

Can you really "pop" one in...please email me with a few details on this "maintenance procedure" as it would be an old "indian trick" I would like to have in my bag!

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Re: windshield replacement

Where the Cessna Maintenance Manual says to "shoe horn the windscreen in at the top", this is a great idea.  Make two strips about 1-1/2" wide by the width of the windshield long.  Sandwich them above and below the top of the windshield, with the aft edges of the strips in the groove where the windshield is supposed to go.  A little DC-4 silicone may help.  With 2 people, push on the strong part of the windshield; the curved parts next to the overhead vents.  DO NOT push on the middle of the windshield!  You will be surprised how quick it goes in.  I know someone mentioned not to use Rivnuts, but they really work well if they're driven properly.  You gotta remove that lower strip.  To not do that invites a broken windshield, and it's really worth the extra time to drill out all those rivets.  On the inside of the panel, use 4" wide masking tape to catch the chips.  Good luck!  If you're patient, you'll do fine.

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Re: windshield replacement

I have a 1946 Cessna 140 that has a crack on the left upper corner where the wing fairing wraps around the edge of the windshield. Except for that, the windshield is in good condition. I would like to avoid cost of replacement by welding the cracked piece back on to the windshield. Do you have any recomendations for a acceptable repair? I understand there is a Plastic Welder Adhesive mfg. by Devcon Consumer Products.
Also most of the felt seal has worked its way out on the inside upper surface where windshield slides into the upper fueselage clamp. If I am able to push the seal back into place is there a recommended sealant or caulk I could use on the inside of the windschield to hold the seal in place?
If you recommend replacement. Do you have instructions. It looks like All that is needed is to remove screws in the strip holding lower part of windshield to the fuselage, and then sliding it forward out of the sides and top perimeter clamps. Is this correct?
Thank you John

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Re: windshield replacement

Recently removed a broken windshield from a 46 140.  Mine was in tight with felt being adherred to the metal. Was like a rubber gasket sealer,
very hard to remove until I tried a 3m scotchbrite wheel on my drill.
I have not cleaned up the felt from the top channel and am not sure how to do it if anyone has a tip would appreciate it.  Hope I do not have to remove rivets from top channel also as this is a narrow channel and must be cleaned for new felt gasket.  Bottom clamp on mine was stuck so bad to inner channel I had to lay on floor and drill rivets from inside.
Once bottom clamp was off plane I used a hot knife to slowly cut through the rubber gasket material then cleaned with the scotchbright wheel.  My A&P craked a new windshield while fitting even with the bottom strip off.   Any advice for me on best place to buy a new windshield and how to install would be appreciated.   Thanks  Wayne
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Re: windshield replacement

Please give a detailed procedure for replacing the windshield in my Cessns 172N S/N 17270609 and should I use the original thickness!!??
Thanks ever so much!! cb

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Re: windshield replacement

I have a cracked windshield on a Cessna 310. Can anyone give me an idea of how many labor hours a mechanic should charge for removal and replacement?

Thanks

Doug Jones

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Re: windshield replacement

What sealant can be used on the Cessna windscreens to help prevent water leaks?

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