I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

I am a 10hr student who rents a 172G from a local flying club.  I have just done my third series of touch and goes here yesterday.  Upon my arrival to the club, I was informed that the owner of the plane was blaming me for breaking parts on the nosewheel and that my CFI or I myself would have to pay for it.

The situation is this:

Last Wed, the plane received its 100 hour.  Some things were added like wingtips and so on, and the plane checked out well.  They said they added some fluid to the front strut and/or shimmy dampner...I don't know.

So anyway, the plane is fine and I fly it on Sat for a series of touch and goes with my CFI.  We do 10 touch and goes all pretty good.  Two I land slightly uncoordinated on the main gear, and two I bounce just a slight bit from coming in with too much airspeed.  They bounce only about a foot though, from the reflex of the main gear.  On this series of touch and goes, I was sure to keep the nose wheel off the ground as long as possible.  The book I was reading suggested it is the best practice to do so.  Also the last time I flew the plane (prior to the 100 hour), when we slightly uncoordinated and I set the nosewheel down, the plane shimmied like crazy.  So for those two reasons I kept the nosewheel high until completely straight and fairly slow...so I got NO shimmy at all.

Well, after my flight last Sat ended, my CFI went on a sight seeing tour and pre-flighted, taxied, and landed the plane with no problems.

Then on Sunday morning, another pilot pre-flighted, taxied, and landed the plane with no problems.

Then later on Sunday the owner pre-flighted and taxied the plane with no problems.  Upon his return though, the rod ends on the front strut broke in shear.  Well, to be more clear one sheared, and one bent.

Well, the owner is saying that I posted how I landed slightly uncoordinated on another forum is proof that I damaged the plane Sat. and it only decided to fail on him the next day.  I NEVER set the nosewheel down in anything but a dead straight attitude though.

The mechanic that fixed it (who is friends with the owner) said that he thought it first was a towbar, but the rod ends were bent/sheared in the same direction.  He said a tow bar bends them in the opposite direction.  He was sitting there saying that I created microscopic cracks on Sat, then it failed on the owner.

My arguement is one, I never set the nosewheel down uncoordinated at all, plus I don't see how this mechanic is going to attest to my causing microscopic cracks and/or fatigue in these rod ends.  In that case these "microscopic" cracks could've been there for weeks, months, years!

I just can't see how this "professional" mechanic sees the common sense approach being blaming me (because I was the only student to fly the plane since the 100 hour) to causing some microscopic cracks, versus thinking "jee, it was fine when the student landed it, fine when the CFI after him landed it, fine when the pilot after him landed it, then broke when the owner landed it".

The deal is, the owner is pinning this on me, and making me or my CFI pay for it.  We were both there though, and know that we didn't sideload the main gear at all.  We didn't nosewheel bounce either.  The whole club thinks I broke this plane and are all accepting this rediculous theory. 

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

sounds like a real mess!

Based on your information, I don't see how they have a pray of pinning it on you.  Doesn't the owner and your CFI have insurance and is that what they are after?  I can not see how you could be responsible when you are not the PIC.

Based on your experience and if it's accurate, I would not continue with this flying club.  They seem to be trying to take advantage.

my 2 cents...

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

FWIW, I'm with Barry, 100%.

Walter

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

Sounds to me the owner wants his cost to be paid by someone else.
It is a 40 year old plane, what's to say it is just recent  damage. If the part was bent when broken, and no one had noticed it bent prior to owner flying and landing, GUESS WHO BENT IT and BROKE IT. If its a flying club and it is being rented out the owner then takes his chances. He should have insurance for this.

Good Luck

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

tell them to get a life...an old plane, used regularly for primary training is going to see some extra wear and tear.  Sounds like a cheap owner trying to pass off"maintenance" as damage..I replaced both the tie rod ends on my 1968 172I this spring because they were getting rusted.  takes about ten minutes each and they cost less than $20 each. I suspact the shimmy dampner may be to blame but that is not a pilot problem, the shimmy dampner was not working or the nose wheel/tire is/was out of round or out of balance.  (maybe pay him for the rod ends and go out and cave in the firewall with a REAL bouncer!)

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

Are you in the Chicago area by chance?  Well I think I would go find another place to take my lessons from.  This could be just a glimpse of what is to come.  There are plenty of places to learn to fly.  Besides, if it is a flying club, then you are technically an owner also.  If not, then it is just a flight school and they better being doing 100 hours every 100 hours.  Anyway, it does not matter if it is your fault or not (as long as you did not do it intentionally).  They rent these aircraft to make money.  Part of the money that they make goes to repair the aircraft.  Would you have to pay if the turn coordinator or vacuum pump or whatever went out during your flight?  No, that is to be expected, just like wear and tear on the landing gear.  Also, you are a 10 hour student and not a 250 hour commercial pilot.  That is the chance you take when you teach people how to fly.  I would also go talk to an independent mechanic and see if they think this kind of damage could be caused by one or two bad landings.  I bet the answer to that is "no".

Your CFI is the one in the bad spot.  My guess is if he does not pay then he will be out of a job.  If you guys are in Chicago, then I know a good aviation/civil attorney.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

If the person who rented the plane immediately after you discovered a problem on preflight and reported it, then you are possibly liable. BUT - you were with a CFI.
If he was PIC, then it is his problem!

If the person immediately after you didn't discover and report a problem on preflight, don't worry about it - it just became their problem - maybe next time they will learn what preflight means - might even save their  life!

your course of action? Take your business somewhere else - sounds to me as though you should give your current renter  a dictionary  to look up the word integrity!
He obviously is having problems with the concept.

Don't give an inch!

Tony
C-GICE

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

He who smelt it delt it. 


There are many factors which could have contributed to the failure of the part.
I know of a CFI canidate who was his checkride with the feds and the steering rod end broke.  They ran off the runway but no damage.  The FAA inspectors looked at the plane and said it was not the fauld of the pilot.  He passed his ride.
Talk to your FISDO airframe inspectors and ask them for advice. Most of these guys will be willing to help.  Not all FAA people are out to get you but there are those who... 
In time, everything wears out. 

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

Just a thought, you may want to review the insurance policy on that aircraft. This can be also to verify that it is covered for commercial use and to what extent to which coverage applies, and covers you. Friends can be friends until $$$$ are involved, then things can get nasty and dirty. Have you also looked to verify that the instructor is also covered and meets the pilot requirements of the policy.

Bill

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

Damian,  Dont let this rediculous experience hinder your desire to fly.  Cessna 172 / 152 will shimmy in an instant if the nose gear is not kept in top notch shape.  There are a lot of things that can cause shimmy.   Sounds to me that the severe shimmy may have stressed the nose gear parts setting them up for failure later. Your landing was probably better than the owners, so how could you have been at fault!  How is your search going for another flight school?     

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

Something to consider....

Since we weren't there at the club when they broke the "news" to you.........did the "club" inform you the owner was blaming you and you/CFI would have to pay in a way that conveyed they're going with his "story" as well or just to inform you that the owner thought you did it?  Perhaps you misunderstood their intent due to being shocked at the accusation.  Something to check on but I'm assuming they are going along with the owners line.


I am going to DITTO what everyone else has said already.....

1) You're a STUDENT and had a CFI aboard.....He is responsible for the conduct of the flight as the PIC since you are not qualified to be the PIC.

2) The next pilot who preflighted and flew the aircraft without squawking the nose gear "released" YOUR CFI from any responsibility.  (Not to mention the subsequent pilots/flights).

3) Microscopic cracks don't cause bends, bends cause microscopic cracks.  Therefore the damage would have been obvious (bent parts) to anyone preflighting had they been bent when you were finished with the plane.

4) Find another "club" to fly out of.  Take your CFI with you if he's smart too.

I would tell ANYONE at this "club" that brings up the subject that they need to discuss any concerns about damages with the PIC for the flight.  I would tell your CFI that this is going to be what you tell them (no reason having him think you stabbed him in the back).  If they give you any grief over it, tell them to sue you.  They won't sue as they know they don't have a leg to stand on with all the other flights (and pre flight inspections) that took place after yours.

Bruce

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

The "owner" preflighted (I hope) that aircraft prior to his last departure.  One inspection point is the nose gear assembly.  He should have looked at it and by taking off certified that aircraft for safe flight.  If the problem had been in existance he would not have reached the end of the takeoff roll without noticing that something was amiss.  Just exactly how good was his "last" landing?

Don't give these people anything and find somewhere else to fly.  You should not be in the loop on this issue as this is part of the responsibility undertaken by your CFI.

Keep at it!

Regards,
Earl M. White

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: I am a student being blamed for broken nosewheel parts...help!

The important concept here is to "buy renters insurance!"  AOPA, Avemco and other offer it.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Board Info

Board Stats:
 
Total Topics:
6044
Total Polls:
1
Total Posts:
16350
Total Posts Today:
1
User Info:
 
Total Users:
2529
Newest User:
gary.robertson@sbcglobal.net
Members Online:
1
Guests Online:
2912


Forum Legend:

 Topic
 New
 Locked
 Sticky
 Active
 New/Active
 New/Locked
 New Sticky
 Locked/Active
 Active/Sticky
 Sticky/Locked
 Sticky/Active/Locked

ankara escort ankara rus escort ankara escort bayan ankara bayan partner ankara escort kizlar escort ankara ankara escort ankara eskort ankara escort bayan ankara bayan partner ankara escort kizlar escort ankara