a 172___ WHAT?

a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>I see all kinds of ads and articles talking about 172M's,172H's, etc.  I know this has some relation to the year models or something.  I have a 1957 172 with an O-300 engine.  I would like to know if there is a letter designator for it.  Anybody got any clue?</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>yours is strictly a C-172.  The letter suffix is how cessna depicts how their basic production design is modified over time (such as an engine or airframe change).  Auto manufacturers use year model.  Since aircraft do not normally go through the yearly updates that detroit does Cessna uses a letter designation instead.  A particular letter suffix could span a period of several years.  Here is the rest of the C-172 line:

172   1956-59                         
172A   1960                           
172B   1961
172C   1962
172D   1963
172E   1964
172F   1965
172G  1966
172H  1967
172I    1968
172K   1969-72
172M  1973-76
172N   1977-80
172P  1981-86
172 R       1997-2001
172 SP    1998-2001</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>But what is a 172 Q? I'm told it was a 180HP O 360 A4M built for Embry Riddle. Do you have any more information?

Thanks</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>A 172 Q was also known as the "Cutlass" and did indeed have the Lyc. O-360-A4N 180 hp.  It was made at least from '83 thru '85. 
Also, the "K" model was made longer than Rob mentioned.  It was made at least thru '81.</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>Was the Cutlass otherwise identical to a 172? I have a 172M with a 180HP conversion I was told was based on being similar to the Q. (Not a Penn Yann or Air Planes etc.)

And is the Embry Riddle part accurate or just a story I was told?

I've flown a Cutlass RG but far enough in the past I don't remember all the differences.

Thanks</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>Riddle ordered the Cutlass for their Prescott, Az Campus.  In the Riddle flight training program you almost always have three people in the plane... Student, CFI, and an Observer.  The high density altitudes in prescott sometimes created performance problems.  As an interesting side note... the Riddle program paired two students into a buddy program.  You always flew together throughout the course.  Doing this offered several benefits for both the school and the student.  1. You had someone to compare notes with. 2. About half of the time you got to see your lesson before you flew it. 3. Once you got to the training area you could stay for most of the day and not have to return to base to get a new student. 

Rob W. ERAU '88</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>The years I posted I pulled from the AOPA Vref page... sometimes you can't win.</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>I have a 1972 Cessna 172 L model 
So I am sure there is a L Model in there also</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>The "L" model was introduced in '71/'72 and included moving the landing light to the nosebowl, new wheel pants, longer dorsal, and the tubular landing gear legs. which made an average empty wt change for the better increasing useful almost 200 lbs.</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>As a note of interest, the '81 model year was the "172P" model (not to be confused with the P172 "Powermatic" which was really a renamed 175 Skylark).  The most noteworthy change was an increase of Gross weight (from 2307 to 2400) and a reduction of full flaps from 40 degrees to 30 degrees.  Purportedly the reason for the flap reduction was to maintain required climb with the higher gross wt. in case of a go-around.  What owners weren't told is that the doorposts of this model were re-designed to make them lighter (and weaker), and that is a contributor to the requirement that the flaps not exceed 40 degrees in order to relieve stresses on the doorposts.  (Doorposts are the major strength carrying member of the cabin.)</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>My 180HP M has the flaps restricted to 30 degrees as per STC and GW increase to 2500. I was told the flap restriction was due to structural loads possible due to higher GW and higher power settings during go around. Does that sound right, or was it due to the 180 HP Cutlass only having 30 degrees? The STC was based, I was told, on it being similar to the Cutlass. They said they provided specs of that plane as the basis for approval.

Thanks 

Jim</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>"The STC was based, I was told, on it being similar to the Cutlass. They said they provided specs of that plane as the basis for approval.".. sounds like you've answered your own question.  ;Þ</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>It sounds like it, but I was told a lot of other things by the shop, quite a few of which turned out to be not quite so. As you may have noticed, I ask a lot of questions, and they didn't seem to feel you had to ruin a good story with the truth. They are since out of business, but I have no complaints, only questions!</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>I was under the impression that limiting flaps to 30 degrees has to do with loss of
rudder effectiveness at very low airspeed and low power (landing configuration with 40 degrees), as well as poor climb out performance. Flap deployment, I think, was also limited in Cessna 152 series. Earlier Cessna 150's had 40 degree flaps.</HTML>

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Re: a 172___ WHAT?

<HTML>Without doing a lot of research in FAR 23 I'd suggest that the reasons for limiting flap extension in later aircraft has to do with the ability to maintain altitude/climb with flaps stuck at full.  Since the aircraft have increased their gross weights considerably since the design first left the drawing boards, the aircraft performance will have suffered with original flap settings.  If one had the time to research the certification requirements of the FAR's then perhaps the support for that theory could be found.</HTML>

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