New member to the board

New member to the board

<HTML>Hello fellow Cessna owners. I'm new to the board and just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Bruce Rice and I live in San Francisco, California. I just passed my check ride 2 months ago in 68 hours, and just purchased my first plane last Saturday. I'm the proud owner of a 1968 172 Skyhawk. So far, all of my time has been in a Cessna 152 and I have to admit, I'm a bit intimidated by the size of this thing. My past instructor (just moved to Oregon) said not to worry, that I would quickly grow into the 172. I've already joined Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Cessna Owners Organization, National Gay Pilots Association and Cessna Pilots Association, just to learn as much as I can about aviation in general. As you can probably imagine, I'm very anxious to get checked out in this beast a.s.a.p. Unfortunately my CFI moved to Oregon just before I bought my 172. Now I need to find a CFI that's very competent in a 1968 Cessna 172 Skyhawk, and lives in the San Francisco area. Are there any on this board from my area? Or does anyone know of somebody I can call? If you do, please advise. I'd like to get checked out this coming weekend, but no later then next weekend. My insurance company wants me to have 4 hours signed off in make and model prior to my solo. Your replies will be greatly appreciated. I'll look forward to getting to know all of you.
Thank you,
Bruce</HTML>

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Re: New member to the board

<HTML>Welcome aboard Bruce.

I've been around for only a few weeks myself, I'm pretty new.  I've been flying for 20 years and currently own a 1956 Cessna 172.  I love it to death.  I live on Iowa, the weather is turing cold so I won't be doing much flying for the next three or four months, I will get out when I can though....</HTML>

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<HTML>Thank you for introducing yourself Dave. I'm sure I'll love mine too, once I get flying it. I haven't even gone for a ride in a 172 yet, being that I paid to have it delivered. I really enjoyed flying the 152 but was very impressed with how much more room we have in the 172. Did you learn to fly in the 172 or transition from something else? I guess it can't be too difficult being that my insurance company only requires 4 hours dual time. I just want to go up in this thing so bad; I'm tempted to just try it. Everybody I've talk to tells me that it's just a BIG 152 and that they fly the same. Is that true? I'm glad to have found this board, it's already very helpful.
Thank you,
Bruce</HTML>

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Re: New member to the board

<HTML>Bruce,

  I assume your plane is not actually at SFO.  Probably San Carlos or Palo Alto, right?

  I'm in Watsonville (and your plane probably isn't).  Otherwise I'd fly with you.

  Bottom line...ANY CFI can do this 4 hours with you.  The 172 is as universal as they get.  I suggest you call and schedule two seperate appointments at two different FBOs on the field, with whatever CFI is available.  That way if one is a flake the other will do fine.

  Finding a CFI who's very competent in a 172 is a total waste of time.  Any CFI will do what you need (get you to the 4 hours without porpising or taking out a runway light).

  "Better is the enemy of good."  Any CFI will do a good job, but if you demand "only the best" you may have to wait, which will encourage you to go solo, uninsured.  Are you really going to fly a $50K airplane with no insurance and no instructor the first time you take it up?  When all it takes is $160 (at $40/hour)?

  I've never flown an uninsured minute in my life.  I figure the actuaries wouldn't ask for X hours in type unless it dramatically lowered the accident rate, right?

  All the CFI needs to do is act as safety pilot.  I hired a CFI recently to do this so I could refresh my taildragger skills.  He hardly said a word for the whole flight.  He got in, I flew, he got out, he signed my logbook, I paid him.  After that we talked about how nice the weather was.

  A CFI who is good with a 172 is like a plumber who is good with pipes.

  I am certain you'll  be fine.  The 172 is like a big 152 except the controls are a bit heavier.  This means the flare takes more muscle pulling the yoke back, especially with forward C.G.  The biggest problems new pilots have with them is:

overloading with 4 people and then overrotation
landing too fast and porpising or wheelbarrowing
not putting in enough aileron for the crosswind

  The first is because the C.G. is far aft and the controls are very light.
  The last two are because the controls are heavier than a 152.

  Good luck...

Mark</HTML>

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<HTML>P.S.  I flew with a 150 owner in a 150 last week.  We flew in another 150 (not his 150).  He's a low timer (70 hours).  When we turned base, he put flaps all the way down, then dragged it in on final.  He asked me on short final if I thought something was wrong with the engine.  I said "I don't think so."

  So he landed, and then realized he'd accidentally put 40 flaps down.  His flap lever is spring loaded, but this one comes down and stays down.

  So he was glad I was there to keep him safe, but glad I kept my mouth shut and let him make mistakes on his own.  Honestly I thought he did it on purpose, and I frowned a bit as we dragged it in, but it wasn't unsafe so I let it go.

  This is why you want a CFI for 4 hours.  Just a safety pilot, and maybe a little feedback on the ground...

Mark</HTML>

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<HTML>Welcome to the board, Bruce.  I also live in San Francisco.  I own a Skyhawk which I hangar at North Field - Oakland, and know several good local CFIs.  If you're interested in connecting with one of them, please e-mail me.

Good luck..

Stan</HTML>

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<HTML>Bruce;

I started flying about 20 years ago whe I was 15.  I started and soloed in an 1947 Aeronca Champ.  She was a high wing, fabric covered tail dragger witha C65 engine.  I really miss that plane.  One of these days I'm going to purchase a second plane and it will be a champ.

From there I went to Cessna 150's and a Beech Sundowner.  From there I spent a good deal of my time in 172's...</HTML>

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<HTML>152 to 172 -

The control surfaces are the "same" when you land in a crosswind or near gross weight - this info will help expain some of the handling qualities.

One of the bigger differences from a 152 is you can fly a 172 solo with partial tanks or at gross weight and the handling changes quite a bit, because of the wide range of weight compared to a 152 - Changes your takeoff and landing and makes the nose very light somedays or quite heavy on others - it helps if you mentally prepare your thought process each time beforehand adjusting your expectations with takeoff weight in mind.
On any aircraft a right forward crosswind will make the nose lighter and a left forward crosswind will make the nose heavier, but when you add in the weight and cg range of the 172 the difference from one extreem to the other may surprise you.

The 172 is great - predictable, forgiving, roomy, and smoothes out more of the air  than a 152.

0.02   

Ken Wanagas</HTML>

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<HTML>When I was flight training, I did almost all of it in the C-172.  I never flew the 152 at the FBO before because I am a big-framed guy and the 172 is much more comfortable for me.  One time all the 172's were booked, so we took the 152. On takeoff, I immediately felt and noticed the lightness of the controls and to me, the 152 felt a little "squirly". It could have been just that particular plane and the fact that I wasn't used to it, but that was my observation.  Since then I have only flown the 172 and a few hours in a Diamond Katana.  Just a perspective of someone moving from the 172 to the 152 (temporarily).  Good luck with your new plane.</HTML>

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<HTML>Thank you very much guys. All good advice! I found a CFII at Palo Alto that can give me 4 hours this weekend, providing the weather holds up. "A CFI who is good with a 172 is like a plumber who is good with pipes". Well said Mark, I get your point. Thanks again to everybody, I'll hope to meet you all at some of the upcoming Cessna fly-ins.
Bruce</HTML>

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<HTML>Yeah Bruths, I'm sure you'll fit right in. Is there really such an orginization? If so, where do the 4 of you go? If you guys go to a real busy bar and there's only one bar stool left, at least you can all share it. Just turn it upside down. I've got more of these!
Rusty</HTML>

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<HTML>Bruce; ignore this rusty idiot.

I sometimes with people that were getting or have a pilots license would have to meet certain criteria for being human in order to get one.  He would fail.</HTML>

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<HTML>C'mon, that was actually funny!  It's before 8AM and I'm laughing! 

Those Piper guys are a bit crude sometimes tho  tongue

  I'm sure if Cessna had as many lawsuits against them as Piper did, it would be called New Cessna.  Long Live New Piper!  What'll they be next time?  Perhaps New New Piper?  Clearly they've come up with a robust naming convention.  wink

Mark</HTML>

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<HTML>I really think we should all ignore people who have nothing good to say.  It is obvious that this "person" is simply trying to get a response from the participants in this forum. We all know there are a lot of very fine airplanes around that are not manufactured by Cessna.  I have friends that fly a wide variety of these aircraft including hombuilts, Bonanzas Aeronicas, and even a couple of Cherokees.  I doubt seriously that I could call these people friend if they spent their time talking about how superior their plane was or what a piece of junk other peoples planes are, you see they are more intelligent and mature than that.  The people that this forum is for are people that have an interest in Cessna Aircraft.  I was introduced to aviation and the local flying community a little over 10 years ago.  One of the great things about aviation is the camaraderie among "airplane people" and the respect we tend to show to others. I don't know if this "person" really owns an aircraft or even has their pilot’s license, I do know that this person is not the type of individual that I associate with the aviation community.  This is not the place for insults or childish banter.  The more messages this person post the more obvious it's the lack of intelligence and respect for other people becomes.
.02</HTML>

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Re: New member to the board

<HTML>Great post Dan.</HTML>

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<HTML>I agree; great post, Dan.</HTML>

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<HTML>That's ok guys, I can take yet another joke. Actually I thought it was pretty funny too. It paints a pretty scary picture, but funny just the same. I read some of Rusty's past writings and thought it would just be a matter of time before he'd catch up with me. Hey Rusty, I just want you to know that I'm not at all offended and that I totally understand your curiosity about this whole thing. That's how it starts Rusty. Anyway we actually have 638 members in NGPA and I'm sure you'll need the web-link for our site. Just click or cut and paste: http://www.ngpa.org and we'll soon have 639 members. Hey Rusty, take a walk on the wild side! I said hey Rusty, take a walk on the wild side! Don't be too hard on him guys, he's just really confused right now. Imagine the poor guy just wonering what side of the fence he's on. Poor thing.</HTML>

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<HTML>This should make it easier

<http://www.ngpa.org ></HTML>

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<HTML>One more time:

<http://www.ngpa.org></HTML>

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<HTML>Stan,

  Oakland is AMAZING.  For anyone who lives in SF, I envy you for Oakland.  San Carlos is way too small, too expensive, and cramped.  About the only place in the Bay Area worth beans is RHV, except the dang runways are so short taking off in a twin there gets a bead of sweat.

  Oakland has tons of approaches, lots of runways, a great gas/FBO spot with cookies and CHEAP gas (used to be 2.25).  Oh and there's a VOT so when the sky is crap and you've forgotten to do a recent VOR check you've got a place to test the VOR before T/O.

  If you can avoid a runway incursion (there's some tricky taxiing there), I think it is a great place.  Dunno about the hangars and stuff like that though.  And it's not quite as social (at San Carlos, Diamond, etc. you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an IFR pilot, but boy oh boy prices are HIGH!).

  Bruce, good luck with the weather this weekend.  It don't look so great...maybe time for scud runnin' practice  tongue

Mark</HTML>

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<HTML>Mark,

At the risk of thread creep, I absolutely agree with you about OAK.  There's never a wait to take off or land (three runways), fuel is cheap (Kaiser Air), it's actually the closet airport to San Francisco except for SFO, it's very secure because it's an international airport with lots of airline traffic, and I only had to wait three years to get a Port of Oakland T-hangar ($226/mo).

I also agree with you about the social aspects of San Carlos.  I work in Foster City and eat lunch just about every weekday at SQL's Sky Kitchen restaurant.

~Stan</HTML>

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<HTML>Hi Bruce,

I hope you found that instructor and are flying this AM!  so far the weather is awsome, today.  I'm in San Jose.
If not...I can't think of a flight school in the area that doesn't have 172's.  An CFI should be easy to find.

Don't worry about the transition much.  I had a 150 and decided to get my IFR ticket, due to that marine layer that pretty much grounds VFR pilots....I did about 95% of it in a 172.  Flying the 172 was the easy part.  I was too busy trying to "navigate"  The transition wasn't much different than going from an economy car to a mid-size..

After I got my IFR ticket, I was looking to upgrade the instruments in my 150 so I could do an ILS approach into SJC.  I found a decent IFR radio package...but it had a '68 Skylane attached to it.  That was a noticably heaver handling plane.
I think the you Skyhawk should be a fine handling plane!
Congratulations...have fun!!

Michael</HTML>

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<HTML>Real funny! I hope you all got a big kick out of these postings. I really don't appreciate having my manhood questioned. I won't bother any of you anymore with my existance. And no, I'm not going back to the Piper site. They didn't seem to care for me either. Thanks for fixing that link for me Dan, but I can assure you, I don't need it. And thank you for the kind words Dave, it's been a pleasure! George was the only cool guy on this site anyway. Awesome plane George, fly well for many years. Pipers Rule!!!
Rusty</HTML>

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<HTML>The piper guys don't care for you either?  That should tell you something about how you act and treat other people.  I hope you learned a lesson.</HTML>

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