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Robertson STOL
Robertson STOL
I have a 1972 C172-L that is fitted with a Robertson STOL kit with flapperons. I bought her from the original owner some 18 years ago.
She was sent to the Robertson factory directly from Cessna and this kit was installed because the original owner had plans to lease her back to the ATF for low and slow drug operations. It was my understanding that this particular kit was a requirement by the ATF at the time. The original owner was a crusty old aviator that not only was the dean of a major university's aviation school, but he also flew B-17 bombers during WWII. He demonstrated some short field take off and landings that were "incredible" and kinda "scary" to this "at the time" student pilot. I should mention that he only gave me these demonstrations upon my solemn promise that I would never try to duplicate them, and that is a promise I have never broken. Now to my question: Recently I called Robertson Aircraft and requested some manuals on my Kit. They still had my bird's registration number on file and promptly sent me manuals, etc. regarding this particular installation (I was impressed) and told me that they hardly ever install this type of kit, cuffed leading edges, stall fences, wing tips, and alerons that droop down and are interconnected with the flap setting. Does anybody else have a C-172 with this type of kit, if so please, contact me about questions regarding stall characteristics. Thanks,
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Re: Robertson STOL
<HTML>I have a 1982 172P that has the Robertson STOL and I have the STC with specs. e.g. short field approach - flaps 30 and 50 kIAS. Is this the type of info you are looking for. I can fly the plane with flaps down and maintain allitude with about 1900 RPM and something less then 30 KIAS. My plane also has the air plains 180 HP conversion that was added several years after the installation of the Robertson kit.</HTML>
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Re: Robertson STOL
<HTML>Larry--a photo of my plane is posted in the photo section</HTML>
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Re: Robertson STOL
Ernie,
Thanks for your response. Does yours have the flapperons too ?. The reason I ask , the original owner told me never do departure stalls with more than 20 degrees of flaps. He maintains that it will go inverted so fast that you can not stop it from doing so. I never have tried it to see, mainly because my bird stays full of articles I don't want to see all over the cabin. He said it did it with him several times with max flap setting. Going to check out your bird after posting this.
PS. My girl was due out of the paint shop last monday, but I am still waiting. I took off work all week (girlfriend too) to go to sun-fun but as of today, ain't got a bird. The weather is looking bad for a weekend departure and I may have to drive down (boy I hate to do that).
Regards
Larry
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Re: Robertson STOL
Hi Larry,
I have a 1961 C-182 with the Robertson Stol at the present time and also owned a 1959-C-182 in Montana from 1985-1996 Then I moved back to the Midwest, I sold the Montana aircraft and bought the 1961 that I now own. I would like the address for Robertson if you don't mind, the literature that I have doesn't quite meet my C-182.
I love the stol kit and when in Montana I found it very good doing search and rescue in the Mountains and flying into backcountry airstrips.
It is amazing the stall characteristics with the stol.
Would appreciate the address.
Harlie
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Re: Robertson STOL
We have a C172 1978 N model with the flap interconnect. I have done departures at thirty degrees flaps and it does get off the ground quickly. But you need considerable forward pressure on the yoke to prevent this upward rotation you refered to. We have the 180 hp AVCON but at high density altitude the drag of the thirty degree setting is going to prolong the roll, compared to twenty degrees. We have used this when the mud of the runway made for great rolling resistance, we wanted to get the weight off those tires as soon as possible and it did help. Rich
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Re: Robertson STOL
We have a C172 1978 N model with the flap interconnect. I have done departures at thirty degrees flaps and it does get off the ground quickly. But you need considerable forward pressure on the yoke to prevent this upward rotation you refered to. We have the 180 hp AVCON but at high density altitude the drag of the thirty degree setting is going to prolong the roll, compared to twenty degrees. We have used this when the mud of the runway made for great rolling resistance, we wanted to get the weight off those tires as soon as possible and it did help. Rich
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Re: Robertson STOL
Harlie, (bet you gotta bike too)
I believe I contacted Sierra Industries, P.O. Box 5184, Uvalde, TX. 78802 I think they may have some kind of tie with Robertson. They told me that they mostly install them on Citation jets these days and call them R/STOL Hi-Lift systems.
The phone number is 512/278-4381.
However, the manual I recieved appears to have came from Robertson Aircraft Corporation, Snohomish County Airport, North complex C-72, Everett, Washington, 98204 Tel 206/355-8702 Toll free 800/426-0192. The service and maint. manual I got covers C-150,172,180,182,A182,185,205, and 210A,B, & C.
Yep, I have been well pleased with the short and soft field capibilities of this bird, and I know exactly what you are talking about "forward pressure". Try talking your FAA check ride with this system. The standard C-172 final approach flap settings will hang you out to dry. After two attempts to hit the numbers from pattern alt. I finally had to let my examiner try it, he landed twice as far down the runway as I did! He said it was like flying a balloon.
Stay on course
Larry. ps have you ever tried departure stalls with full flaps?
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Re: Robertson STOL
Rich,
Have you ever done any departure stalls with full flaps ?
Thanks,
LArry
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Re: Robertson STOL
Larry,
I have done a departure take-off with full flaps a few times, but it does waddle about until you get a bit of airspeed up and start lifting a notch or two of flaps.
I am not sure what you mean- flapperons, I never heard that word before, but I do have the flap interconnect.
Thanks for the phone numbers and addresses for Robertson. I appreciate it.
Harlie
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Re: Robertson STOL
Harlie,
When you say interconnect, does that mean that both alerons droop down when flaps are activated (flaps interconnected with the alerons). In other words the flap drive motor also drives the alerons in a downward motion. The extent that the alerons droop down is dependant upon flap settings e.g. more flaps, more droop in the alerons yet they still operate independant from each other as normal. I have heard it refered to a continous trailing edge flap. My question about departure stalls (with full flaps) applies to performing them at 2500' agl. untill complete "break" or "stall". The man I got my bird from said it would go inverted (upside down) (only with full flaps)very quickly. But would not do this with any less of a flap setting during the forced "power on" or departure stall. I never have tried it to see and was just wondering if anyone else may have.
Thanks,
Larry
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Re: Robertson STOL
<HTML>Larry--my plane has drooping ailerons and tie in to the elevator to which adjust the elevator to match the flap setting. The plane has been fully stalled at 30 degrees of flaps--in fact I've made a lot of landing with 30 degrees of flaps resulting in a full stall at touchdown. The operating procedures from Robertson has no limitations other then maximun flaps for take-off (short/soft field) and go around is 20 degrees. I have the tuned exhaust system on the Air Plains 180 engine and the aircraft is certified at 2550 pounds due to the conversion which was done after the STOL was installed and the stall speeds for the basic 2400 pounds were provided by Robertson--for zero thrust and level flight are; flaps up-39, 20 degrees -33, and 30 degrees-31--there are other figures provided for 20, 40, and 60 degrees of bank and all airspeed figures are knots. My plane was briefly mis-rigged with the ailerons matching the flaps--in this configuration the plane wanted to fall off on the right wing
and required constant yoke pressure to keep it from happening. If you want more info that I can give you from my operating manual--let me know</HTML>
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away or at least become crisper. I suspect it would but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away or at least become crisper. I suspect it would but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
- Guest
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
- Guest
- Guest
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
- Guest
- Guest
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Re: Robertson STOL
Yes I have done departure stalls with full flaps, it has been a while, so I will go out and do some more to refresh my memory. In any case there was no adverse effect as I recall. Full power, positive rate of climb, and bleed the flaps out. This was done at 3500 ft AGL, of course, in a practice area.
I have a question. Has anyone with the full Robertson system had VG's intalled? If so did the softness of the aerlion controll at full flaps and low airspeed go away, or at least become crisper. I suspect it would, but before I invest in it I would like to have some confirmation. Thanks, Rich.
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