Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Hello All!

I posed the question on the Piper list that I'm a first time buyer looking at  C-150/152's  and P-140's (the choice based soley on affordabilty for me).  My training has been totally in a 152 so I asked for comparisons in general between the two choices: cost, maintenance, pilot skills transfer from 152 to P140, etc. etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! A newly minted pilot here looking for a first plane. 

Thanks a lot!
-Rick

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I vote for Cessna, My A&P would give the Piper the thumbs down.He,s very experienced in working on both models,and I trust his judgement.I think this has alot to do with parts availibility as well as how they are built...my .02

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

If you are leaning twards the Piper, consider the cost difference for what in cant do. The 140 whle having 2 more seats cant carry anyone of size back there. If you are tall, forget about having back seat passengers at all.
But it is a good 2 person plane with luggage capability and fuel range. One great thing about the Piper is that you wouldn't have to (with two people) always be borderline overgross. I weigh 190 and if I take a passenger of equal size in my C-150 with full fuel tanks, the plane is overgross.

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Having owned a Cherokee 140 (150 hp Lycoming) and now a Cessna 150 (100 hp Continental) I offer the following comments:

The Cessna 150 with it’s high wing is liked more of my passengers.  They can see more of the ground that is hidden by the Piper’s wing.  A point for the low wing is that they can handle a greater cross wind due to the wider gear track.

The Cessna has a has two doors, both hard to get into for larger and older persons.  The Piper has a single door with a step down into the cabin.  Heavy persons plunking down onto the passenger seat can bend the Piper's seat frame.  I find that the Cessna 150 is much louder than the Cherokee 140.

My Cessna is a real ice maker, one has to be on guard constantly. I   have never have experienced carb ice with the Lycoming in the Cherokee.  With the 150 hp engine, two extra seats, the Cherokee is a three place plane with much more range.  The Cessna has 22.5 gallons usable burning about 6 gallons per hour, the Cherokee wing tanks hold 48 gallons usable with a fuel burn of about 9 gallons per hour with about a 20 mile per hour speed advantage. 

The Cessna 150 is more fun to fly, lighter on the controls.  The Cherokee 140 has a heavier gross and could make a better instrument training platform.  I like it’s rough air handling better.

I like and would be thankful to own or have access to either of the two airplanes.  They both have their pro’s and con’s.  Other than the good fortune of gaining an opportunity to purchase a good airplane at an exceptional price, a major factor in my decision making would be the mechanic.  A major portion of my decision making process is if I have a relationship with a mechanic.  Should the mechanic have a more complete knowledge of one over the other, why pay for a learning curve?  Plus, if he or she is a Ford or Chevy man, there are probably some extra brand specific parts and supplies on the shelf.  I have known and trusted my mechanic for over thirty years.

John McAuliffe   Cessna 150F   Plymouth, MI

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I'd like to throw my 2 cents into this.

I own a C172, have flowm many C150's during training and flown a couple of Cherokee 180's.

I have found at 6' 3" and 350lbs that the C172 is much easier to get in and out of and seems to offer a tad more cabin width.  I personally prefer the high wing over a low wing.  I like to be able to look out and down when I fly.  The low wing does have it's advantages in the pattern, when making turns the Cessna wings hides the runway from view until you level out.

As Joh  stated both planes have advantages and disadvantages.  My advice would be to find a local FBO that does rentals and rent each type of plane for an hour with an instructor and go out and have some fun.  Do a few stals and steep turn.  Shot some touch and gos to see what the pattern is like.

That should help you decide which type of plane you prefer to fly.

Good luck!

     Dave

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I own a C-172M.  When I was shopping, I was comparing the PA-28-140 to the C-172.  The C-172 won hands down.  For me the difference was cooler inside temperatures, much more room, and I was uncomfortable in the Cherokee 140 and I'm only 5'-8" and 165 lbs. (wet).  The PA-28A-160 (Warrior) is much more comfortable.

You will have no problem flying a Cherokee having learned in a Cessna.  I made the switch and liked flying the Pipers 160's, 180's and 235, but I bought a Cessna C-172.  There is a lot of threads on what's better the piper or Cessna use the search tool to find them.  The winning slogan is:

"Have you ever seen a low wing bird?"

Seriously though, you will be happy with owning versus renting.  But perhaps you should rent a few different kind of airplanes for now and decide which you like to fly the best.  After all, you will be the behind the controls.

Additionally, you will also find that the condition of the specific air plane you buy will make all the difference whether it is a piper or cessna.

Last of my 2 cents, consider what you will be using the airplane for and how much money you will need to fly and maintain it.  Can you incorporate it into your business activities and get some tax advantage?

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I sold my C-150 because I wanted a little more airplane,  I nearly bought a Cherokee until I realized that a Cherokee is not nearly as comfortable as a Cessna.

Cheokee Pros:
1. Low purchace price:
2. Looks good.
3. A lot of aftermarket speed mods are avialable.
4. Low wing tanks are easier to fuel.

Cherokee cons:
1. Only 1 door
2. People step up on the flap and wing to enter the 1 door.
3.Electric fuel pump = more fuel management.
4.Tanks must be switched (no BOTH setting) = more fuel management.
5.Narrow cabin, every time I have been in the left seat of a Cherokee I could hardly move my left arm because I was jammed up against left side of the cockpit. ( A friend tells me that he flies his PA28-180 with his right hand once he is in route)
5. Low wings are inconvient in the hanger, you have to walk around the wing to get from the cowl to the tail instead of just walking under the wing.
6. Parts seem to be more expensive.


Rick, If purchas price is a big factor for you  like it is for me, you might want to concider getting an older C172?  It is not that hard to find a C-172 that is in the same price range as of a lot of C152's and Cherokee's. I just did a search on Trade a plane
<http://www.trade-a-plane.com>
and found 17 C-172's priced from $17,900 to $30,000.

If operating cost is a factor you may want to use autofuel, (some people think this is good some think it is bad, the FAA says it is ok if you have an STC for it's use).
If you want to use autofuel make sure the plane you buy is eligible for the STC and understand that some of the Cherokees take extensive modifications to make them eligible to use autofuel, many of the Cessna only need a placard.
You can get more information on autofuel at:
<http://www.autofuelstc.com/pa/petersenaviation.html>
and
<http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/>

What ever you decide I suggest you find a good mechanic (IA) talk to people you know that own small aircraft, find out who works on their plane and what they like and don't like about that person or business.  If you don't know many owners post a message on the Cessna and Piper forums and you should get some response.  You need to line up someone to do a through prepurchase inspection of the logbooks first then the plane.  It has been wisely recommend (by the all knowing George Horne) that a buyer have an annual inspection done prior to purchase.

Empty Wgt:
PA28 -140     1274lbs
1963 172D  1330lbs
Max Gross
PA28 -140     2150lbs
1963 172D  2300lb

Takeoff (over 50 ft obstacle):
PA28 -140     1700 ft
1963 172D  1525 ft

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Gosh Guys, Great Info!!

I hope it keeps coming because the decision is now even tougher than ever.  Both "sides" are making great points.

-Rick

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Hi all,

Was just checking in on my thread about painting my C150F and notice the thread about C150 v Pa-28 140.

I thought I would add some food for the brain to munch on about this topic.

When I did my training it was mostly in C150-152, but also spent some time in Pa-28 140.

But before I go on, I should come clean, I am an Aussie Pilot from Down Under and I am what they call a bush pilot, (I spending all my hours flying in and out of small unsealed private strips, 500m to 800m long most of the time).

So I think what Barry mentioned, is one of the most important factors, what type of use and flying will you do with the plane.

If you are going to be doing Nav's from one sealed strip to another at 1000's of ft and never get off the beaten track so to speak.

Low wings are fine and quite pleasent to fly and I would also agree a lot quiter, at least to most older Cessna's I have flow.

With a low wing in a normal pattern, I would say I feel a little safer when other traffic is around, but that's about it for the 140.

But if you are like me, not interest so much in Nav's at 1000's of ft, but want to see some scenery and get off the sealed stuff as you gain your hours, a high wing is the only way to go. 

I will tell you what I do not like about my C150F,

Getting up on top of the wing to fill and check fuel amounts.   

Washing the top of the wings, but whats it like getting under the Low wing?

Not so good to see other aircraft in the pattern when I am in the air or on the ground.

You can hit your head on the wing, but you lean quickly not to do that.

When parked, with the higher wing, surface wind can move the plane around easier.

Now for what I like about the Cessna C150.

You have some shade to sit in where ever you go.
You have two doors, for safety and to load stuff through.
You can load straight off the ground.
You have windows that can be open in flight if need be, to check out that strip.
Fuel drains are easier.
Checking tyre pressures are easier
Pushing and moving the aircraft around is easier


But for me this is where it really counts.

Going into strips where you have to inspect it from the air to know if you can land or not (you take no one's word for it), so you look for surface holes, water, power lines, fences, animals, rocks or whatever, no way can you do this safely in a Low Wing or see as much.

And should you ever have a force landings or have to land on a road, your wings are a lot higher so they will go over the top of a lot more things.

And for 40 degree flaps, great on the early models, but just do not leave them hanging out on a go round, as you will not climb out in a C150.   

Well that's about it for getting on to the ground, but getting off well the Cessna is a again a winner and the earlier models are the best at it.

Short take-offs on soft soil, you will see is an art and some thing you can lean. It all about a balance between ground drag, induced drag and ground effect.

So find a Pilot who can show you what a Cessna can really do quite safely if need be, if this type of flying is what your looking for and you want to lean.     

A couple of last things, I guess when you own your own plane you look at things differently, well I do.

I just don't want to be able to walk away from a force landing, I want my plane to have no damage as well.

I can only have a chance of this by know what my aircaft can do and practicing it, so to have the best flying skills I can.

I know if you are looking to increase your Hands on piloting skills, over time a Cessna is by far a better plane.

Because as your skills slowly increase with hours, a Cessna can take you places where a 140 Pilot would say that's just to risky.

Well that's my 1 cents worth as our money is worth about half yours.

Tail wind to all

Jim

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I'll make it short: I have owned a PA28-140, C150, & C152.  The C150/152 is a 1 (one) person plane, but it handles great, like a sports car.  Like flying a kite in turbulence, though!  If you like to fly a lot by yourself on the weekends, get one.  But don't kid yourself about taking cross-countries with the wife though, or interesting your neighbor on going with you (at least after his first cramped flight).

The PA28-140 is a 2-person plane (2 only--plus maybe a small kid).  Put  3 adults in it and you're asking for trouble.  But...it will take 2 adults and baggage on a nice cross-country.  It feels solid in flight.   Handles x-winds well.   It can be had for about the same as a nice 152.

Someone mentioned the older 172's...1956-1966...2-3 person and small baggage.  Parts available.  It's a Cessna.  That's where I would be looking today in that price range.

Good luck! (sorry--wasn't so short after all).

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I'll toss in another comment.  I own a 1956 C172, I have about 850lbs for useful load, with full tanks I am down to 538lbs left.  Plenty for two adults and some baggage, or two adults and a child.  I usually fly around with half tanks, that way I can take three adults with no problem.  I fly out of a 2200' sod strip from time to time fully loaded and she gets up and goes out of there with little problem.  Now, when the temp is above 90 I will not fly out of there.  But at my home base we have a 5000' concrete runway and I have no problems going in and out of there with a full load.

         Dave

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Rick,
In reading the responses,I see that you are indeed getting a large amount of info.This is knda like Ford VS Chevrolet...Most people purchase their first plane,and have a tendency to stick to that brand(Not always but usually).
They both get you where you wanna go.
My 150K(1970) has the factory kiddie seat,and it makes a great flight bag holder,and as Ive read in previous posts..if you have two people in it(full size as in an instructor) and full load of fuel youre likely over gross.Ill bet youd be surprised at how many take offs and landings are done every weekend with just this situation.Even when I took my checkride for my private,I was asked about the W&B,and had to tell the examiner that unless we drained off about 6 gallons on each side we,d be Over gross...he never broached the subject again.
The C150-152 was originally designed for students,therefore made tougher,and insurance is cheap.Parts readily available,and easy to work on.I would poll some mechanics before making any decision,I suspect THAT will help in your decision.....tailwinds

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I have owned both - would never take the 152 over the PA28-140. Yea the view is better in the 152 but every thing else (for me) goes to the 140.. Cessna verses Piper - I could care less. Its the airplane that offers the most overall "whatever" that gets my vote. What I say to Rick - check both out and decide what overall "whatever" will get your vote. You are the one that must be happy...

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Rick, I forgot to mention an important issue--handling.  At approach speeds, the ailerons on a 140 feel like they aren't even connected to the yoke compared to my training in 150's/172's.  I asked my instructor if something was wrong with the plane it was so noticeable.  Mushy--unresponsive--x-winds on approach can require some serious yoke displacement to get any roll response.  I bought it anyway--but never really adjusted to it and would not go that route again if I could find a reasonable older Cessna.


However--you might like it--so...FLY ONE--for sure.  Don't buy without flying in all regimes of flight, including stalls.  Good luck!
(the Warriors with the semi-tapered wing don't have that quirk)

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I have owned both cessnas and cherokees. I have also rebuilt cessna172-182's and cherokee's and I must admit that the cherokees are by far the easier plane to work on and parts are comparable. They both have their good points and bad points,the controlls on the 150/152 are much lighter the flaps on the cessna are so much better that there is no comparison. the controlls on the cherokee specially the elevator are much heavier and flies like a heavier plane (you will find out what trim is for real quick). in reality  it is not a fair comparison with the 150 and cherokee140 ,it would be a lot more even with the 172.if I was light(which I am not) and my my pasengers were small ( I won't comment on that) I would possibly go with the 150/152 but given real world people and any baggage I would have to go with the cherokee specially if any real crosscountry flights are in your future. the cherokee is not the roomiest plane but it is quite alot more comfortable than the 150 and actually about 1 inch wider at the shoulder than a 172. if I was looking for a plane just to burn holes in the sky and build hours, on less fuel burn, then the cessna120/140/150/152's are a hard plane to beat and a lot of fun.all planes are a series of compromises ,it all depends on the intended mission.
as far as the ailerons on hershey bar wing cherokee's ,gap seals from amrd are cheap ,effective and simple (it is just tape)and really help the cherokee's a lot.
Kevin

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

Kevin, I wasn't aware that the gap seals did much.  I have heard pros and cons, mostly cons...but maybe the 140 is just the plane that they need in order to show an improvement.  Anything would probably help--even duct tape smile

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I agree with most comments (although less so with Kevin's).
If I were to put it in a short version it would go like this.
Cherokee parts these days come from junk yards.
Cessna parts are still available from Cessna because the original company is still in business.
Cherokees are poor trainers largely because they have poor flight control response/feel and lousy, clumsy rudder control.  (As a CFI, I can tell within seconds if someone learned in a Cherokee because they have no rudder skills.)
Cessna 150's are the all-around best trainers out there.

The problem I see is that you should reduce your decision making to the purpose of ownership.  If you are looking for a good, maintainable trainer that is less expensive to operate...the answer is: A Cessna 150 or 152.  If you are looking for an inexpensive to operate and maintain cross country flyer that can accomodate additional passengers, baggage, etc.,....the answer is: A Cessna 172.  (But if you're looking for a CLASSIC airplane with the above features, the answer is: A Cessna 170!) ;Þ

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Re: Cessna 152 or PA-28 140

I have to agree with George about rudder skills of most cherokee drivers. I don't think the cherokee's are the best trainer, not because they are to hard to fly but actually that they are too easy.not that the cessna 150 is hard ,not at all but it does have much more direct feeling controlls which is a good thing for training.The plane that I have owned that I feel would make the best trainer was a cessna 140 you definately learn rudders with it & was a blast to fly.just no usefull load.
Kevin

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