180 hp upgrade

180 hp upgrade

<HTML>My cessna 172N has the H2AD engine with 2075 hours. At present, it runs great, with good compression. Myself and the previous owners have always made it a point to run the engine at low rpm until there is movement in the oil temp guage.
Is it worth the extra 10 to 12 grand for a 180 upgrade? The only thing that interests me is the extra 250 pounds I can haul, making it a true 4 seater.</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

<HTML>I think it is. I have the Air Plains 180 conversion with the Robertson STOL  I like the 50kt approach capability and the 2550 total which allows my wife to take about everything she owns for a two night trip, The only problem she has is--deciding what should she leave at home. My payload after full fuel is 815 pounds</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

Nothing beats HP!  I really like the 172 with the 180 HP.  It is a much more capable airplane in my view.

Walter Atkinson

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

A coworker with a '77 172N was at TBO on his H2AD and opted to install the AirPlains O-360 with the gross weight increase STC.  I frequently ride with him as safety pilot while doing his practice instrument approaches, and the AirPlains conversion has made it a totally different airplane.  I'm now seriously considering doing the same thing to mine.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

Not yes but hell yes.  I went with PenYan Aero, the difference wasn'yt as much as you say.  It was goinging to be $13,000 for an overhaul or $19,750 for a 180 conversion.  The conversion gave me a new prop allowing me to sell the old prop reducing the difference even more.  Unfortunatly with your engine the costs will be higher the first time around.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

We're considering the 180 hp upgrade on a 172M or N model also - haven't bought the plane yet. 

What are the important differences between Penn-Yan and Air Plains? 

Would you recommend either?

Thanks,
Dave

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

You should also get in touch with Bush Conversions in Udall Kansas as they have a kit which is very well priced.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

The difference between PenYann and Airplains is that PenYann has an STS to convert the O320 into an O360 not requiring you to buy a new engine.  Other than that they are very similar.  This STC saved me $5,000+ over Airplains

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

If you want increased payload, increased speed and increased climb...then DO IT.  I own a 1979 172N with PennYan 180 + Powerflow exhaust.  With a single pilot, I can run at 130kts easily.  You get 182 speed with half the fuel burn.    If you plan on doing the upgrade, you should probably budget for a new prop as well.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

<HTML>Thanks Guys!  This info is great.  As a new pilot, this phorum is a valuable tool.</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

<HTML>I also have the tuned exhaust system and while you are in the process of updating--include the Power Flow system. The additional torque makes the plane leap off the runway. Recently I had a crack in my muffler and the power flow folks handled every thing great. I put my old system back on the plane while the Power flow folks were repairing my system and really was able to get a good feel for  the benefits of the tuned exhaust system when it was re-installed.</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

Don't send Bush any money up front.  Get the stuff shipped to you C.O.D.  (My 2 cents from private emails I've rec'd.)

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

George, I've just ordered a kit from Bush. Anything else i should know about?

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

While were on the subject, does anyone have any performance figures for a 180hp conversion to an early (straight back) 172?

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

<HTML>Probably your best source besides what the conversion folks provide is the Cutlas model 172Q pilot operating handbook--I purchase one some place for like 20 bucks and it is an exact duplicate but is called an information Manual.</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

Ernie- I am a student pilot and recently purchased a 1969 Cessna 172 with the Penn Yan 180 engine conversion (It was factory new when installed). It also has the Horton STOL kit. The plane had all the amendments to the POH for the engine but nothing for the STOL kit. I noticed you mentioned a 50 kt approach capability... where did you obtain that information or did you just figure it out on your own?

My instructor and I are having a hard time figuring out approach speeds for my airplane because it floats so much with the STOL kit. What do you use for your pattern speeds through downwind, abeam the numbers, base & final? And what flap settings do you use?

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

Ernie- I am a student pilot and recently purchased a 1969 Cessna 172 with the Penn Yan 180 engine conversion (It was factory new when installed). It also has the Horton STOL kit. The plane had all the amendments to the POH for the engine but nothing for the STOL kit. I noticed you mentioned a 50 kt approach capability... where did you obtain that information or did you just figure it out on your own?

My instructor and I are having a hard time figuring out approach speeds for my airplane because it floats so much with the STOL kit. What do you use for your pattern speeds through downwind, abeam the numbers, base & final? And what flap settings do you use?

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I helped my brother do a 180 Air Plains conversion on his 172N about 6 yrs ago.  He used to fly between Norfolk,  Va. and NE Pa. about twice a month.  It was non stop with fuel to spare with the original engine.  After the conversion to 180, he had to stop most of the time for fuel enroute depending on the wind conditions.  Even though he gained an increase in gross weight it was offset by the increased fuel burn.  Keep this in mind when considering any  engine upgrade or deviation from the factory norm.  One solution might be long range or auxillary fuel cells (Flint, etc.).

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I helped my brother do a 180 Air Plains conversion on his 172N about 6 yrs ago.  He used to fly between Norfolk,  Va. and NE Pa. about twice a month.  It was non stop with fuel to spare with the original engine.  After the conversion to 180, he had to stop most of the time for fuel enroute depending on the wind conditions.  Even though he gained an increase in gross weight it was offset by the increased fuel burn.  Keep this in mind when considering any  engine upgrade or deviation from the factory norm.  One solution might be long range or auxillary fuel cells (Flint, etc.).

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

At the same speed as the old engine the fuel burn should be the same, the engine will be turning slower. The extra 10 knots you can get wiil burn an extra three gallons per hour.
The biggest benefit is the climb increase.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

<HTML>Mike--my plane has the Robinson STOL system which droops the ailerons when the flaps are lowered---it also automatically adjust the elevator so that the transition from normal flight to flaps is smooth with no pitch up. The Robinson STOL was installed before the Air Plains 180 HP conversion and increased gross from 2400 to 2550. The Robinson manual list stall speeds for 2400 gross as 39Kts - flaps up, 33kts -- 20 degrees, and 31kts -- 30 degrees. This is zero thrust and level flight.  I have flown the plane at altitude with about 1800 RPM, 30 degrees of flaps and much less the 30 kts. My normal approach from base to final is at 60 kts, and final at 55 kts. Short field approach down to 50 kts final. I could go lower but don't want to scare myself</HTML>

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I just put in a Penn Yann rebuilt and toyed with the 180. I did not do it because soemone once told me"would you buy a mini van if you went on a long tripp 2 times a year?" Aside from that there are times  I wish I did it. But be sure not to compare the difference between the two engines as the final cost for a new engine tends to inflate as you get in it. i.e. cowling, oil filter, carb box, muffler,lord mounts etc. Get a real idea of what an engine will cost complete out the door and then add the difference. Also, you lose the dgrees of flaps.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I just put in a Penn Yann rebuilt and toyed with the 180. I did not do it because soemone once told me"would you buy a mini van if you went on a long tripp 2 times a year?" Aside from that there are times  I wish I did it. But be sure not to compare the difference between the two engines as the final cost for a new engine tends to inflate as you get in it. i.e. cowling, oil filter, carb box, muffler,lord mounts etc. Get a real idea of what an engine will cost complete out the door and then add the difference. Also, you lose the dgrees of flaps.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I just put in a Penn Yann rebuilt and toyed with the 180. I did not do it because soemone once told me"would you buy a mini van if you went on a long tripp 2 times a year?" Aside from that there are times  I wish I did it. But be sure not to compare the difference between the two engines as the final cost for a new engine tends to inflate as you get in it. i.e. cowling, oil filter, carb box, muffler,lord mounts etc. Get a real idea of what an engine will cost complete out the door and then add the difference. Also, you lose the dgrees of flaps.

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Re: 180 hp upgrade

I just put in a Penn Yann rebuilt and toyed with the 180. I did not do it because someone once told me"would you buy a mini van if you went on a long trip 2 times a year?" Aside from that there are times  I wish I did it. But be sure not to compare the difference between the two engines as the final cost for a new engine tends to inflate as you get in it. i.e. cowling, oil filter, carb box, muffler,lord mounts etc. Get a real idea of what an engine will cost complete out the door and then add the difference. Also, you lose the dgrees of flaps.

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