180 hp upgrade

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I just put in a Penn Yann rebuilt and toyed with the 180. I did not do it because someone once told me"would you buy a mini van if you went on a long trip 2 times a year?" Aside from that there are times  I wish I did it. But be sure not to compare the difference between the two engines as the final cost for a new engine tends to inflate as you get in it. i.e. cowling, oil filter, carb box, muffler,lord mounts etc. Get a real idea of what an engine will cost complete out the door and then add the difference. Also, you lose the dgrees of flaps.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Don,

I thought you would only have limit the flaps to 30 degrees if you want the gross wieght increase STC.

PS: you might want to hit the post button only once.  This web site is a little slow sometimes wink

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I am looking at a 66 172, w/ a 0-300.  What costs should I expect to putting a 180hp engine in.  The 0-300 is at TBO and I'm considering this conversion.  I have been unable to figure out the price of such a change.  I also want to do a constant speed prop as well.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I got an 172N with the Avcon conversion plus a stol kit, is there any way to find out what kind of stol kit you have just looking at it?, been considering the powerflow too but seems kind of expensivo .

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Mike,
Did you get an answer?  I also have a cessna 172 with a Penn Yan 180hp engine, powerflow exhaust and Horton STL kit, but cannot get performance figures.  I want to do some further training, and my instructor isn't happy until I sort this out.  Any help greatly appreciated.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

On this subject, mine is a Bush COnversions STOL kit and Madras Air Service Super Tips along with 180 HP and a CS prop and I too am having difficulty deternmiing the new speeds for adjusting the POH recommendations.  Tomorrow I am calling the folks at Bush Conversions.

BUSH CONVERSIONS Box 431 Udall, Kansas 67146 Phone or Fax 620-782-3851 800-752-0748

My 2ยข to a very old thread!

John Beech
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Ernie Connor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike--my plane has the Robinson STOL system which
> droops the ailerons when the flaps are
> lowered---it also automatically adjust the
> elevator so that the transition from normal flight
> to flaps is smooth with no pitch up. The Robinson
> STOL was installed before the Air Plains 180 HP
> conversion and increased gross from 2400 to 2550.
> The Robinson manual list stall speeds for 2400
> gross as 39Kts - flaps up, 33kts -- 20 degrees,
> and 31kts -- 30 degrees. This is zero thrust and
> level flight.  I have flown the plane at altitude
> with about 1800 RPM, 30 degrees of flaps and much
> less the 30 kts. My normal approach from base to
> final is at 60 kts, and final at 55 kts. Short
> field approach down to 50 kts final. I could go
> lower but don't want to scare myself


Ernie,
I read your post and was curious if you have any POH update info for your 172N with Robertson STOL . I bought my plane in April it is a 1977 C172N with Avcon 180 and Roberston STOL. Problem is I have only the original POH and a Card from Avcon with the MP/RPM settings for various power/altitude settings. I had to figure stall speeds by trial and error and would appreciate if you can steer me toward any performance info sources for this configuration. I guess Avcon is out of business and Robertson got bought out by someone else over the years?
Scott Thomson
C-GXQT

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

There is no doubt that the posts her advocating an upgrade are right. I installed a Pen-Yan upgrade, prop, and powerflow exhaust in 2004. It changed my 79 N model for the better. The extra speed and useful load is great. I fly about 200 hours a year and enjoy having a solid airplane to do that in. Pen-Yan is a very professional company and I enjoyed working with them.

Rich

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Hi,

I am purchasing a 1977 172 with the Pen Yan conversion.  What are people finding for fuel burn with this conversion.  We are trying to plan our flight back to DXR from Valdosta, GA and would like some practical information since the owner has not collected great data on the subject.

Thanks
David

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I used the 172Q climb and Cruise charts for Flight Planning and it was within 0.3 US Gallons.

For the engine burn-in at full power I had 14 GPH at low altitudes with no leaning. The engine fuel flow chart at % rated power that came with the STC should be in the aircraft documents and it seems to give you a good cross reference to the theoretical fuel flows. The weight, temperature, leaning and density altitude will all affect the actual fuel flow.

There was an NTSB Letter on fuel consumption dated April 11, 1994 that you should also read. The Massachusetts Air Reserve also have some data on several 172P aircraft that were converted from 160HP to 180HP. The only discrepancy on the latter info is the Climb Speed. The 172Q with the 180HP engine has a climb speed of 73 KIAS but they seem to have kept the 172P climb speed of 76 KIAS. It may be due to the Fuel Weight. If anyone has the rationale for this difference, I would be interested in hearing it.     



David G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> I am purchasing a 1977 172 with the Pen Yan
> conversion.  What are people finding for fuel burn
> with this conversion.  We are trying to plan our
> flight back to DXR from Valdosta, GA and would
> like some practical information since the owner
> has not collected great data on the subject.
>
> Thanks
> David

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Thanks for the information.  I will look into the NTSB report.
David

David G.
234TS

Dgolod
useravatar
Offline
3 Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Dave,

Just remember that STC SA703GL from the FAA indicates: "THERE IS 'NO CHANGE' TO THE PERFORMANCE SECTION OF THE AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL" whereas, the NSTB report states: "CAUTION: The fuel consumption and range/endurance information originally presented for this model do not apply to this STC modification; increase fuel consumption and reduce range/endurance can be expected with the 180 hp engine installed."

The latter organization has acted more professionally than the former.
This is probably why I have found 3 different "best angle of climb speeds" for this 172 180hp engine configuration: 73 KIAS, 76 KIAS and 78 KIAS. I believe 73 KIAS is the correct answer based on the 172Q, but I am not sure.


Al

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Al,

I finally spoke with Pen Yan about their STC and was amazed to see that there was no requirement for upgraded data regarding W&B or performance.  The only thing in the supplemental manual was the fuel consumption chart.  They told me to extrapellate out from the current POH I have since all the functions are straight line.  Then they told me to get the POH for the 1984 172Q since the 172N with the 180 is really a Q.  I am still amazed that there was no requirement by the FAA to develop new W&B graphs and performance charts.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

David

David G.
234TS

Dgolod
useravatar
Offline
3 Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I have a C-172 with the Penn Yan conversion and the Powerflo tuned exhaust system. This, along with a climb prop. has given me 182 performance at a 172 price. Full fuel and 2 on-board and I peg the VSI every time!
A friend even commented that my plane out-climbs his Grumman Tiger.
The fuel burn is higher but aggressive leaning and a conservative tach will give you the economy of a standard 172.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I have a Cessna 172 with Penn Yan 180hp upgrade and Horton STOL.  I love it!   I get about 9.5 gallons/hour with "normal" RPMs.   That's not that different than the old trainers in need of a paint job, except I'm going 120 KIAS!   The climb rate is nice.

Regarding POH - yeah, that's frustrating.  I have some power/fuel curves, but it's not like having a modified POH.  I got both an extra 172M and a 172Q POH off ebay for a few bucks each.   Watch because the original 172M has stats for 2300 lbs (max condition), but the 180hp moves the max weight to 2550 lbs (like 172Q).  So if you compare table to table, some performance numbers look *worse* (but it's the increase in weight).   And note that the 172Q had a 54 gallon total fuel, while the older 172's (like mine) are 42 gallons max.

I still don't know the effects of the STOL kit - please let me know if someone finds anything.

-Tim

tconrad
useravatar
Offline
2 Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Just get a Cessna 180, thats got all the horsepower you need.
Besides, Real Men Fly tail dragger's.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

I love the 180 Horses.  My plane climbs very well.  If you pull the power back to the speeds listed in the original POH it will burn the same amount of fuel.  I have the AVCON conversion with the constant speed prop.  today with 21 inches of MP and 2200RPM she flew about 98 Knots.  I think some of the lack of speed is that I have no wheel pants, or strut cuffs or gap seals etc etc.  However I really would not want to go back to the original engine. 

I am also surprised that the FAA did not require AVCON to make at least a POH supplement. 

I am not so sure about real men flying tail draggers, I am a real man, served in the military.  Done lots of things but prefer a nose wheel.  My first flying lessons in 1978 were in a Cessna 120 with a tail wheel.  Nice plane but really the nose wheel is a better and more stable landing gear.  I like to see in front of the plan while taxiing, I like the more stable cross wind landing, I like the Cessna 172.  The 180 is a good plane and if you prefer it then good.  I like people with conviction.  I do not know if you are a man or not.  My first flight instructor was a woman and she preferred tail draggers but I think she would dis-agree that she is a man because she flies tail draggers.  Can't we just get along?

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Another way to pick up some speed on long cross country flights is to get bigger fuel tanks.Eliminating a fuel stop would save at least a half hour in time.

This company has up to 65 gallon tanks (I think) for 172's.

DEL AIR PORTERVILLE
Municipal Airport
Porterville,CA 93257
47.2MI from Bakersfield
(559) 784-9440

Now there aren't any payload or rate of climb increases but you use the original fuel guages and there aren't any extra pumps or anything because they just add onto the tanks already in the plane.

chopper
useravatar
Offline
12 Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Dear All,

My club has a Cessna 172P which need a continuous airworthiness maintenance program, does anybody know where can I get the MPD (Maintenance Planning Document) for the aircraft?

Thanks a lot for your help and support.

Regards,

Indri

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Could some one help me with the contact details for Robinson Stol Kits Iam a Cessna 180a owner considering an increase in take off and landing performance.
John
Australia

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Give the below contact a shot.

Rich, Sierra Industries owns the Robinson STOL rights and they can be reached toll free at 888-835-9307 or "e" mail at ( This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it )


Hope this helps.

Dan

Dan Weiler
Executive Director of the Cessna Owner Organization
(715) 445-5000, ext. 116
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Daniel
Executive Director
useravatar
Offline
444 Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

David wrote..
I am still amazed that there was no requirement by the FAA to develop new W&B graphs and performance charts.

David, The FAA in fact does require weight and balance be updated, but not by the STC holder, it is incumbent on the installer and ultimately on you as the owner and operator.  Even something as simple as a light switch replacement still requires consideration of weight and balance.  A light switch  similar to the one that came out will likely elicit "negligible change in W&B" on the paperwork, but the entry shows the installer is doing their job.  If you've had work done on your aircraft and the installers are ignoring W&B, you can't really argue the weight and balance is current.  The airplane isn't airworthy and maybe not even safe.  The engine swap into a 172 is a good example.  The O-360 combined with a constant speed Hartzell, really shifts CG forward, especially if the battery stays on the firewall.  This airplane with two guys up front, nothing in back, full flaps, power off... you gonna have the yoke in your gut, and still not bring the nose up, right when your trying to flare.  Bummer.  Now if you had the new CG position and did your calculations, you'd know to keep gear in back, or move the battery...

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

What has been the best pick for propellor pitch with a 180 hp conversion for increased spead?

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

With many STC's the statement that the mod " exceeds the performance of

the original" is enough to satify FAA.

Since many aircraft also have other mods (Gross Weight Increase ?, STOL kit, tanks) the

resulting flight data could only be for 1 aircraft.   


chris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What has been the best pick for propellor pitch
> with a 180 hp conversion for increased spead?


It's a good move doing your research.

Consider your typical mission in this.

A friend has a 180/172 & normally cruises near 2700 RPM.

However; this is @ 12,000 feet.

At somewhere around 8000 feet Full Throttle will only result in 75% power.

At 12,000 he's probably around 55%.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Re: 180 hp upgrade

Does anyone have a good site to put a complete checklist together for a 1969 172I with the 180 hp upgrade. I want to put together a checklist with the preflight through landing, EP's and all the weight and balance stuff to include V speeds.

Guest
Guest
useravatar
Offline
Posts
User info in posts
Only registered users or members can reply or post

Board Info

Board Stats:
 
Total Topics:
6045
Total Polls:
1
Total Posts:
16356
Dormant:
User Info:
 
Total Users:
2557
Newest User:
jtpeterzalek@aol.com
Members Online:
0
Guests Online:
3417

Online: 
There are no members online

Forum Legend:

 Topic
 New
 Locked
 Sticky
 Active
 New/Active
 New/Locked
 New Sticky
 Locked/Active
 Active/Sticky
 Sticky/Locked
 Sticky/Active/Locked

ankara escort ankara rus escort ankara escort bayan ankara bayan partner ankara escort kizlar escort ankara ankara escort ankara eskort ankara escort bayan ankara bayan partner ankara escort kizlar escort ankara